Black Spirituality - Returning to Our Roots

In this Friday Night Soundbytes episode, host Dr. Loucresie Rupert engages in a deep conversation with psychiatrist and spiritual guide Dr. Melva Green on topics such as trauma, spirituality, and returning to one's roots. Dr. Green shares her personal journey of integrating psychiatry with African Indigenous medicine and emphasizes the importance of self-compassion, discernment, and setting healthy boundaries . The conversation also touches on the need for trauma work, healthy relationships, and the process of identifying authentic spiritual leaders and mentors.


Links mentioned in the show: 
Breathing Room : Open your heart by decluttering your home: https://a.co/d/0iDHN3M

Website: www.DrMelvaGreen.com

Please continue to join us as we discuss topics that center voices that have historically been overlooked and suppressed. Let's tell our stories, learn from them, and overcome. Please check out my webpage for upcoming events and follow me on social media.

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Transcript

Black Spirituality - Returning to Our Roots 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Welcome to Friday Night Soundbytes with me, Dr. Loucresie Rupert. Join me as we discuss topics that center Black and other POC. Neurodiversity, disability, LGBTQ, adoption, and trauma. 
 
 

All right, so welcome everyone. Today, we're going to talk about spirituality, returning to our roots. And today I have a very, very special guest, one of my spiritual leaders, Dr. Melva Green, perhaps best known for her work on A& E Network Television's Hoarders. Dr. Melva Green is a psychiatrist, author, wellness champion, and wisdom guide and mentor who's held a long and steady history as a media contributor on several major networks, as well as regional news, radio broadcasts, podcasts, and print.

On a mission to live out her personal mantra, moving psychiatry from the couch to the community, Dr. Green has lived,  traveled, and studied in Bali, Nepal, Egypt, and Costa Rica, exploring the ancient roots of healing in cultures where indigenous medicine is still highly regarded, understood, and respected.

From the looks of things, she shows no signs of letting up in her devotion to bringing health to the hearts of humanity that we are all so deserving of. So let's welcome Dr. Green. Yay. 

Melva Green MD: Thank you. Thank you. So excited to be here and to have this conversation. . 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Can we back up a second?  I mean, I guess I never asked and probably would assume so, but I didn't know you were an author.

Melva Green MD: Yes. Um, I co authored a book, that was published by Simon and Schuster Atria, the Beyond Words division. It's entitled “Breathing Room: Open your heart by decluttering your home”. I got to get you a copy of my book. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: For many reasons, right? 

Melva Green MD: I definitely got to get you a copy. But yes, it's, it's not a typical,  Sort of decluttering book, and it's more of through a spiritual lens.

It's more looking at clutter as not in the way, but as a way of really accessing What's really important to us and what what's most meaning for us from the level of the heart? 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Yeah, I need that. I've been, uh, well, I guess we'll say I've been doing okay with clutter. I was about to say I've to have been doing good, but I don't know if good is the right word, but better than before.

Melva Green MD: And you know what? That's really the crux of the book. This, you know, it's, I mean, it gives  the tools and the strategies for letting go, but really the premise of it is. to do this with a level of compassion, a level of self-compassion. You know, anytime we're dealing with clutter or, you know, my work in the more extreme cases is with hoarding, is that people like, okay, I'm going to attack this.

I'm going to attack this room. I'm going to attack this closet. And all that really does is just burn out the nervous system. Really end up leaving us feeling discouraged and disillusioned about what, if we were more gentle with ourselves, would really give us an opportunity to go down memory lane, would really give us an opportunity to process some things that we have not been processing.

. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Right   So as with all of my topics, anyone who has listened to any of these, uh, Friday night soundbyte shows that I've done is very apparent and I'm very transparent about this at the beginning that I picked topics that I want to be helpful for me. So I think they're definitely, I mean, not, I think they're definitely helpful for the audience at large, but I'm all about trying to feed myself.

So. This is another topic that I picked because it's helpful to me and also it would be very helpful to the community at large, especially the Black community, especially Black women. Um, so Dr. Meva, can you tell us a little bit about what you do? 

Melva Green MD: Well, let's see, where do we start? Which, which lane? Um, well, how about I start with a little bit about kind of how I started doing what I do.  That might give a little bit cleaner insight. I did my training at Johns Hopkins,  set up a  really successful practice in, um, Baltimore after finishing  my training at Johns Hopkins. And I was doing the, the usual. Practical, pragmatic, evaluation, treatment, from the Western approach that we are so, well trained and educated to do.

And I got to a place where I realized. that that just was not enough for me and that I needed to do more. I come from a line of women who have, um, gifts, spiritual gifts, whether that's the gift of prophetic, knowing, dreaming, seeing, just being able to speak things.  And so it was just part of my nature, but I didn't have an avenue for really expressing that in that more traditional Western model that we've been educated and trained to do. So I got on a quest to then start searching other ways of looking at what we call psychiatric disorders or mental illness. So looking at it from more of an indigenous lens, or some might even say a shamanic lens, because there are many cultures around the world that, um, that know that there's a fine line between mental illness and spiritual giftings.

And so I set out to really study and reclaim it from my own lineage, um, which, you know, which sparked the travel. So I moved to Costa Rica and lived in Costa Rica for a year and studied with indigenous medicine, people there and kind of how they did what they did. And then that just sparked this whole transition of, you know, kind of searching the world over looking through other people's eyes and in the interim there, um, because I prayed, okay, God, I'm gonna take this leap of faith, but don't screw me 

Melva Green MD: And this is when the opportunity, um, for Hoarders came about. And so, and again, I hadn't applied for it. It just came and I shared with them that, okay, well, I'm moving to Costa Rica. And they said, well, you fly from Costa Rica to film. I said, do you want to fly me from Costa Rica to film? And they said, sure. So I ended up still moving to Costa Rica, but flying back and forth, um, to film the show. And that was back in 2011.

So what is it that I do? Um, I. On one level, I do a great amount of work in media in terms of just supporting wherever I can and translating very difficult understandings or even helping people to understand what is going on with an individual from an emotional, psychological, um, standpoint and offering support and guidance in that way on those platforms.

And, and I also work with people individually. But not in that same model that I used to work with or that I work with in terms of helping people or supporting people with hoarding disorder. I help them, um, really access their own spiritual giftings and make sense of them in this modern world. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Yeah. So, um, anybody who knows me knows that Dr.

Dr. Green is my, one of my spiritual advisors and she has worked with me for the last year and a half, two years, um, to, uh, you know, just kind of access my own spiritual gifts. Um, but my own background is that I'm Pentecostal. I have from a very young age known and been told that I have a lot of spiritual gifts.

Um, and when I originally went into psychiatry, my purpose or I felt led to kind of bridge that gap between psychiatry and Christianity, particularly, um, I guess because I am Pentecostal, so kind of even evangelical Christianity in the Black communities, which is completely different than evangelical Christianity that we kind of see in the United States today in white communities.

Um, but  more of that kind of spiritual gifts talk is, is very common.  I remember when I, well, I don't remember actually, but I have been told that when I was younger, I would go up to people and just start telling them things about themselves that absolutely there was no way for me to know. And they'd be like, well, what the heck is going on?

Like this seven or eight year old, it's like telling me all this, you know, stuff. Like who told you, no one knows. So, um, just with life and trauma, I kind of lost access to that. So I've been working with Dr. Green to kind of regain that access. And it's been a really great opportunity and journey. And I'm still working. I haven't really, I haven't got back to like that pure seven year old me, but we're working, we're getting there. 

Melva Green MD: Yeah, we're certainly getting there. And you know, I've, I've found that a lot of the, all of the people who. Find me who come to me for this kind of guidance and mentorship have similar stories of having these giftings from very, very, very young, whether it was, you know, whether we call it prophetic, knowing, um, clairsentience, clairaudience, precognitive dreaming, they have these gifts, but, you know, there are all of these stipulations about these gifts.

So if they are not Done within the context of sort of the church environment. If you have not been proclaimed a prophetess, right? Then you are dabbling in something that you shouldn't be doing or you know what I mean? So there are all of there's all of this, um, these constructs around it, which make it.

even more challenging for, for us to, to develop those gifts and then it's confusing, right? Well, is, is it real? Is it not real? You know, and you're walking this very fine line, especially those of us who are in the, um, mental health field. Then you're walking this very fine line of, you know, making sure that you're doing what is You know, gold standard in terms of treatment, you know, so you're being very mindful and probably hyper vigilant sometimes in, in that way, because you don't want it to  appear that you have crossed some boundary or done something or said something to a patient that, you know, could be deemed improper

Loucresie Rupert MD: Yeah, well, let's talk about that for a little bit while we're on that topic. So, obviously, in psychiatry, there's always the caveat with any diagnosis in the DSM IV that you're supposed to take cultural considerations into account. That said, we know that doesn't necessarily. Probably majority of the time doesn't happen in psychiatry.

I just think we're all trained, um, especially, for most of the attending. Most of my attendings were, were white. Um, but we are, but we were also in the South. So kind of Southern spirituality is a whole thing, whether you're white or black or whatever. Um, it's kind of known that people talking like that spiritual sense.

Even if they're not like super avid church goers, but, um, I guess my point in saying that is I think in, in my residency, we did a really good job of getting collateral for people's baseline before , we decided if they were a hyper religious or not, like, was this a true change from their baseline that also coincided with these other symptoms?

I think we did a good job of doing that in my, um, residency, but I don't think that is necessarily the case. The norm for most, for most residencies and maybe I could be wrong. I, you know, only went to one place, but I, I just, I just definitely think that being a person who believes in spirituality, being a psychiatrist, how do we walk that line?

Or how do we, you know, I have patients who come in and it's like, Oh, you know, I have dreams and they come true Okay. Like, you know, and they're like waiting for me to be like, let's dig deeper into that. And that's probably, you know, delusional. And I'm like, I mean, whatever you're functioning fine. Um, probably true. Even if it's not like, well, who is it hurting?

Nobody. So as a psychiatrist, like, how do we walk that line of, um, I guess science and spirituality. Right. 

Melva Green MD: Um, you know, in, in my own personal journeys, I have not just explored this from my own sort of Christian, upbringing in the South, but have looked at it through a variety of lenses and other religious systems around the world.

And so how do we walk that line? I think there are two really important things. One is being very clear that we don't know everything. So, you know, sort of moving from that level of humility when we are interacting with people that we are, you know, here to serve here to, to, to try to support and through their suffering.

Right? So coming from a place of humility and being very clear that. We don't know if that is hyper religious. We don't know if that is, you know, if that's out of order within the confines of their [00:14:00] belief system. We just don't know. And so accepting that and coming from that place, from a humble heart, then we're able to Really more so than get collateral information.

We can get understanding that this is something that someone is. This is just this is a part of their culture. This is a part of their spiritual understanding. This is a part of their consciousness. Um, the second thing is, I think we also have to really pay attention to Is this impacting their occupational, their function, right?

Like in their relationships, in their life, how is this impacting them? And so I think that, you know, sometimes that's the piece that really gets overlooked. You know and contributes to the biases, right? So even if someone is saying that, well, you know, they talk to God and God said, you know, X, Y and Z, is it, is it affecting them?

Like, is this a problem? Like, is this a problem in their life? And if the answer is no, remain in a place of neutrality around it. You know what I mean? Like, even if you don't understand it, we can certainly remain neutral about it as opposed to taking on sort of paternalistic view of, oh, well, that's psychotic.

Oh, that's delusion, right? Or sort of bring in our own belief systems. Of, well, you know, what if you have a psychiatrist who's an atheist, right? Well, you know, they must be delusional because God doesn't exist. So I think to walk that paradox, to walk that fine line is those two things, you know, coming with an, with the, with the humble heart and an awareness that we don't know everything. And to really looking at its impact on one's function, their relationships, you know, their life. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: So I, I remember  like when, um, I don't remember when we necessarily quote unquote met like Facebook met, but I remember when I started reaching out to you, um, just the same week that happened and I honestly don't even remember the circumstance of me reaching out, but I do vividly remember the same week that that happened.

I remember you told me. that I have been some type of like healer or shaman or something like that in a previous life. And that a patient's parent told me that I had been an indigenous shaman in a previous life in literally the same week. Nobody has ever said that to me before. Nobody has ever said that to me after.

And that same week too, like random people, well not random, but you know, two, Unrelated people that don't know each other, um, said that to me and I was like, okay, so this is interesting, right? Right? 

What do I do with this additional information? But, um. But you know, I think, and I tell people a lot of times that I went into medical school, wanting to be a pediatrician, but I always wanted to be a pediatrician who helped, um, abused kids.

And I think that I just did not know the language for child psychiatry. Cause that just wasn't something that was known to me. Um, always kind of had. that push to, uh, or have that aura, I guess, to help people like have friends from elementary that literally still are like, you know, you were the mom of our group, like everybody listened to you, like, you know, and I think part of it was actually is part of it is my gift.

And part of it was neruodiversity in that I was kind of socially awkward, but also, um, smart enough to realize that if I, like, I would do things like. Make a club and be the president of the club. So then I can develop what games or whatever the club did So that it would be things that I was comfortable with So I kind of got around my social awkwardness and like my bossing is not being as annoying as I think, you know Can can be said sometimes for neurodiverse people um, but it was kind of a melting of like people just being attracted to Whatever gifts that I have.

Um, and You know, always my whole entire life kid on like people would just come and like talk to me and I'm like, why are you telling me this? Not only did I not ask you, but I'm also probably going to forget in a few minutes cause I'm also ADHD. And then you're going to tell me again and you're going to be like, why don't you remember this?

So why don't we just wait till I ask you? Okay. Okay, going on like all this input and I didn't really know a lot of ways on how to like, make all of that work together. And that's part of the work that we've been doing together is like figuring out, you know, like making all that work. Like my brain has.

You know, I'm one person, obviously, but it has this neurodiversity, it has this spirituality, and all of these things that are, are not what typical people think or go through and how to make all of that work together and work for me, I think it's a lifelong learning process, but definitely something that I'm glad I started sooner rather than later.

Melva Green MD: Sure, for sure. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: The other thing. So can we talk about in the Black community? There has been a great push toward back to going towards spirituality and our roots in the black community, um, which is really good in my opinion, but I also. Kind of want to talk about how do we watch for people? Snake oil salesmen, right?

Like, how do we watch for people who are just in this for the money, who have not done the work, who use all of these buzzwords like manifest, and I say manifest, I'm not talking against that, but who use these buzzwords to pull in people who are tired of the status quo, but they're not really offering anything helpful.

So how, as As the black community is, is going, is trying to return back to its roots as we should. How do we do that in a way that we know is authentic? 

Melva Green MD: Well, you know, there are so many layers to this. So you, let's start with the trauma layer. And so the, the, the level of trauma In our community period, um, coupled with the level of trauma at the hands of Religious institutions coupled with, um, this racism, just the struggle, right?

It's, it's trauma upon trauma upon trauma upon trauma. So there's, we have to go in with that awareness and oftentimes traumatized people traumatize others. Right? And it's very unconscious. It's, um, and it's very unconscious. And so the main thing is really about working through one's own trauma and getting to a level of self awareness and discernment.

That's, that's really key because the  landmines are real. The snakes and snake oil salesmen are real. Oftentimes, I find that people move from sort of one traumatic experience to the next, right? So they've been traumatized, you know, inside the church, and then they say, Well, I'm gonna go and study this, or I'm gonna, you know, return to what my ancestors believe and they, and they go there and then they get traumatized again.

They have not dealt with the first several layers of trauma, right? They have not properly healed. They have not properly allowed themselves to grieve the betrayal. of the first 10, 15, 20 hits. Right? And so they continue to bump into it. They continue to bump into the same traumatic exchanges with just someone wearing a different style of priestly clothes, so to speak.

Right? So the first thing is just to recognize and, and accept that we're traumatized people. We're traumatized people. And so if we don't do our own work first, if we don't go in and peel these layers first, we're going to continue to seek out something that we can never get from another anyway. And that's the lesson, right?

Like we have to go inside first. How do you get a, mentor, a guide, someone, you know, who's really going to help you and not, um, ultimately misuse you or abuse you. Um, that requires a lot of discernment and a lot of searching that it really does. It requires really watching people. and studying them and seeing them see you see, you can see their giftedness and their charisma, but you also have to  see their humanity, right?

Mm-Hmm., like when they wobble and where there's inconsistencies and where they say one thing, but you clearly see that they're doing something else. Like you have to, you have to own that. You have to see it and own it and not deify these individuals just because maybe they are practicing, you know, more closely to what you consider your own root spirituality.Never deify them, 

Loucresie Rupert MD: right? Me and my best friend, um, have talked about this numerous, numerous times. Um, just. with regards to some very amazing spiritual people that we know in our life. Um, but that people really, really fall off because they eventually find out these people are human. And I'm like, I'm not quite sure what you thought they were at first.

That's just, that's just always amazing to me, I guess. Cause I've, I've never been that type of person, so I don't really understand it, but I can very much see that someone is doing. I mean, unless it's a breach of ethics or a breach of character. We're not talking about that, but I can definitely see that someone can have this kind of spirit, you know.

Um, spirituality or power or whatever you want to call it and still be human and can kind of separate the message. Like you said, I can look for long as they're still ethical, long as what they're like, the big things is what they're saying. I don't expect anybody to be perfect, but so many times people deify people.

And the first thing someone does wrong or quote unquote wrong word does something that is human because we are all human and make mistakes. They're like, Oh, you know, this isn't real. That isn't real. Like, you know, so I think it's really hard for people to even learn, like what to look for. So what should people look for?

So what, what are the deal breaking ethical breaches when looking at a spiritual leader? Um, what does someone being human? 

Melva Green MD: You know, I look at, I look at inconsistencies. I, I don't, I don't make excuses. So I look at the inconsistencies and what they say and what they live, right. And so if someone is saying something and living something and I'm seeing it, it's not like this is kind of, you know, come out of the, you know, come out of the woodworks out of nowhere, come out of the blue, but I'm hearing what they're saying, but I'm seeing them do something entirely different.

Right? Um, that's a that's a red flag. 101 right there. Thank you. But no, thank you. Um, just walk away. In fact, no, don't walk. Run. Right? Because this person is just Is, is that disconnected? That they're not even hiding their inconsistencies. You know what I mean? Like, 

Loucresie Rupert MD:  Yeah. Well, there's this one pastor who, um, and I'm not going to call anybody names, but I swear every other month he's apologizing for cheating or almost cheating. And I'm like, how does this man still have a church? Like what is happening right now? That is inconsistency. That is not doing what you're saying. 

Melva Green MD: Like, you know, it's, it's pay attention to the inconsistencies, you know, pay attention to that. This is incoherent. This is discordant. This is, this does not match up like, and don't, and so don't pretend that it's going to ultimately match up.

Right. It's kind of like, you know, when you, someone's been in a bad relationship and they get into the same relationship, they get in this same exact dynamic, just a different name, a different social security number.  I'm like, you don't the only thing to have was a different zip code. So, so just, you know, really being honest with the self about when you see a, you know, when you see what a person says and what they're doing, not matching up, right. And, and, and making people being okay with requiring people to be accountable.

Right. I think there is also a big misunderstanding, whether we call it in spirituality and religions or whatever, is this, you know, well, we have to forgive. Well, okay, but there's levels to forgiveness. Right. There's levels to reconciliation and there's levels to atonement, right? So being very clear that we're just saying, okay, but we, you know what, that's what we do.

That's what Jesus would do. That's what God, we were just going to forgive and we're going to forget. Meanwhile, the person is consistently having various infractions. of all types, right? And so just being really radically honest about that. It's like, no, this person needs rehabilitation. This person is removed from this  position because they are going to continue to bring harm and damage.

And Really being honest about that again. I think that these misunderstandings about what it means to be forgiving and what it means to be spiritual, get in the way of people just being really real about someone. And I'm of the mindset. That again, the depth of your humanity is the source of your divinity.

So the deeper you can go with seeing people in all of their human humanity, that's the more spiritual you are. So see them. But be very clear that, okay, but you can't guide me. Okay. You, you, you need to be up under somebody somewhere,  right? Like I have a policy. I don't take advice from people who I wouldn't switch places with.

Like, if I can't, if I can't look at your fruit and look at what you are doing, you know, if, if everything, if what you are doing is just, is just inconsistent and not life giving and not It, it's that. Thank you. But no, thank you. You know, you, you got, we all have work to do, but you got a lot more work to do than I have to do , so

 I'm going to, I'm gonna, I'm hard past that. So, I think that's also a really good, good way to avoid kind of getting caught up in that sort of thing. And also too, and this, my, this would be my third thing, you know, sometimes when. searching for sort of our roots of spirituality, what our ancestors believed, what our ancestors, um, practiced.  We can get really, what's the word I'm looking for? We can get really haughty and really, um, we can get really prideful. Start to reject what though, you know, what, what our ancestors did, who, you know, were enslaved or what they did to survive. And I think that's a big, big, big misstep because there's a lot of power. There's a lot of power that many of those church mothers had. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Yes. So I, yes, I think I see that a lot when talking about parenting. Um, and I think our generation, like, um, you know, kind of my age and people younger are getting to the point where we can parent from a place that is not pure trauma and protectiveness. and so we judge you know, past parent, past black parenting techniques. And I, and honestly, I judge them  too. Cause they, they, they weren't really healthy, but I, but also you have to look at it from a place of empathy that they were keeping us safe in a time where you literally could end up being hanged at any time.

Like it's different. And we still have lots of racism. We know that, but it's different parenting the child. That I don't necessarily worry is going to get hanged every day. Like I do worry about police. I do worry about racism, but I'm not literally like you can't look this white person in the eye. You're going to end up on a tree.

Um, and so I think we, we don't have, I think it's, I think it's a hard line to walk. And honestly, I'm not, I don't think that I walk it all the time, but I think remembering that people did the best they could with what they had in, in the way they parented is traumatizing to us now. But it was necessary or felt necessary, even if it wasn't felt necessary then for very valid reasons.

Melva Green MD: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. I, again, I, there are certain things, yes we have to reject them. They were destructive. Right. Right. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Absolutely. Which is why we're doing that. But, but I think we started, you know, I think we went into the risk of like saying, Oh, our parents were just bad. And like, let's just, you know, there has to be some kind of bridge of this is not healthy. It was, it wasn't healthy. We, we can now move forward, but I still honor my ancestors and what they were trying to do anyway. Yes, 

Melva Green MD: yes, yes, yes. Take the meat, keep the bones, you know, It's that, like, take what is of value, take what you, what is, what was good, and leave the rest, but be, we have to be very mindful about just fully rejecting all of the ways, um, because, again, I mean, What, what was done in, in, in times of struggle is part of why we are still here.

And it's part of why we are able to even have the  choice to be exploring, right? Because we're still here. So we have the choice and the opportunity to be exploring other ways of being spiritual, other forms of spirituality, and being able to understand the syncing up, the synchronization between Christianity and some of our African spiritual traditions.

Because Just because they weren't practicing them using their same, um, language, doesn't mean that they weren't practicing with them, that they weren't praying to them. Right. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: And you know, me and you have talked about that, but I remember growing up and being, um, just really sad. Not that I was an African American, but I felt we had no history.

I felt we didn't have like, I felt like we, they had really succeeded in taking these bonds to our motherland and breaking them. Um, and then as I grew older and  got some sense. You know, just looking at, or actually I won't even say as I grew older and got sense, as I started to learn people, so as I started to get to know people from Africa, um, so Nigerians and Ghanaians things like that and see so much of the similarity, I'm like, they, these are ancestors really against all odds, like managed to preserve a lot of our traditions. Um, even with food, like I remember, you know, as I was getting to learn about, you know, certain African dishes and I'm like, Oh, that reminds me of like cornbread and greens. And that reminds me. And it really just like, for me, I know that I was like, Oh my God, there's so much.

You know, richness of my history. And the whole time I was thinking like, I have no, like, I have no history because, you know, my history was taken from me and it was in that sense that I can't say exactly where I'm from, but so much of it survived anyway, that I just think black people are amazing. Cause to me, that is amazing.

That we, that so much of our history survived at all. Absolutely. 

Melva Green MD: And you know, we, we can't, you know, we couldn't be torn away from our DNA. I mean, it's in, you know, it's in your code. So whether you're consciously aware of it or not, doesn't mean that it's not there, you know? It's 

Loucresie Rupert MD: So when people are starting this journey, what do you have people that's good for them to follow?

Do you have recommendations? I get this question a lot because I tell everybody about you, um, but you know, so people are like, well, who can I follow? Like, how can I start this journey? I want to start this, you know, the spirituality journey. I want to return to my roots. I want to tap into, you know, our ancestral power.

Um, where do people start? if they don't have a Dr. Melva Green. 

Melva Green MD: You know, I am big on starting with your own genealogy and it's your own ancestry.  doing sort of kind of a bit of the legwork, you know, the, the, the research. And I, I know that's not as easy as it may sound, because so many of the records are lost, you know, so many of the records, people don't even know where to begin of it, or they can only get back about four generations.

Um, but AfricanAncestry.com I don't have any sort of financial affiliation with them, but I have, I do recommend that people, um, do their genetic testing, because it is what I have found is gotten is the closest to, um, accuracy. You know, some of the ones are kind of like, you know, Ghana percentage, Cameroon percentage.You know what I mean? Well, that's not really that helpful. Um, because 

Loucresie Rupert MD: those are those are words that that, um, what am I trying to say? Colonizers used for Right. You know, for those places, those aren't the tribes that people go by themselves. 

Melva Green MD: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, that's, you know, those are, those are, geographical divisions that, you know, are, you know, sourced by someone else.

But, um, but African ancestry can take you all the way back to, um, Your where you're with the people that you share genetic information with, um, take you back to the tribe of where they live currently. and so that can be a beautiful journey just in terms of exploring who those people are. and where they migrated from.

So being able to really just trace in real time your tribe, you know, the, the tribe that you came from. And just with that, you can learn, you can learn a lot about like, Oh, that's why I love that kind of music or, Oh, that's why I love that kind of food or, or that's why, you know what I mean? Like you will find so many similarities in between, between what you do.

today, right? Your mother did. What your grandmother did. Um, in these peoples. And then you also can see yourself and you literally look at yourself and go, wow, those are my eyes or that's how my face is shaped. Right. And so there's a tremendous amount of value in that because I find that this feeling orphaned, it's, it's a deep hurt.

Yeah. feeling displaced is a deep hurt, and the reconnection, even if it's just with that information, sparks this awakening, this yearning to connect, to reconnect. In a very intentional way, you can, you know, research what they practice, what they ate, how they pray, you know? And what I have found is that when, when one starts on that journey, and I think you probably attest to this as well, when one just starts on that sort of practical searching journey, they start having all kinds of experiences. Right. Like all kinds of synchronous experiences of getting confirmation or affirmation  

Loucresie Rupert MD: My mom is constantly told by Nigerian people. I think generally how some people, but I'm not 100 percent sure. Um, like people come up to her all the time and think that she's Nigeria, like Nigerian people do. Um, we did, we did both.

Well, I did African ancestry, which, you know, of course tells her side. And then we both did 23 and me. And her percentage, her African percentage is 95%, which is super high for, you know, for an ADOS American minus 90%, which is also super high, but anyway, long story short, um, I just think like my mom has done this.

My mom's adopted too. So she has, you know. This other, uh, interest in doing her, uh, her genealogy tree, but she started that resurgence. She's like completely, you know, watches a whole lot of, uh, Nollywood and it's like, Oh, that's why we do that. So when you said that, I started laughing because I'm like, that's literally my mom.

She's like, Oh, that's why we do that. That's why we do that. And then like, people are constantly coming up to her and, you know, start expecting her to be like. First generation, maybe, or, you know, and she's like, Nope, absolutely not. And they're like, well, you are, whether you know it or not, I'm telling you where you from, right?

Melva Green MD: Right. So just the, the, those connections, it's like you start to connect and something was connecting, not on just one level, it begins to connect on a myriad of levels. And it just starts inviting these synchronous moments and these opportunities to participate in different things that lead to the next and lead to the next and lead to the next.

So, I you know, I, I leave it to. The one's own personal spirit to awaken to who those people are, because, as you know, I've never advertised this work, right? People who, you know, resonate like there's a resonance. There's a knowing that's communicated that says, okay, you know, Dr Melva was my person or that's my person.

It's it. It really is sentient intelligence. Um, yeah. that calls people. And so, and again, sometimes someone can be drawn to someone, right? That it truly has, um, has gifts for them. But again, pay attention. Is this person, is this, does this person walk their talk? You know, um, because they can have medicine for you or they can have a gift for you or they can have something for you, but make sure that, cause sometimes that's just a gift, sometimes it's just that, that, that connection, right?

Like they might connect you to the next, but that's not necessarily your teacher or your guide, right? So that's when you apply. You know that discernment piece and 

Loucresie Rupert MD: so what if you don't naturally have so I know you're saying watch what people do How long I guess how long would you suggest people watch and I say this because I have I have always been Really good about even as a kid and my mom will tell you this I've been really good about picking friends Even if they you know My friends are like all over the spectrum of like what they do what they don't do when I was going up I was you know quote unquote good at Two shoes.

I have friends that were like smoking weed every day, but, and I don't say, I'm not saying anything wrong with that, but it's, you know, somebody who was like wearing skirts all the time, didn't drink, didn't smoke, you know, whatever people look at, look at that and be like, Oh, that's weird. But these people never pressured me to do anything.

I wasn't comfortable with. We're always, you know, we always encourage each other. It was always like, Oh, she, you know, she's going to do this. Not, you know, a lot of people, I hear people say. You know, I have friends, but they would make fun of like me being smart or whatever. It's like I  never ran into that.

And I have friends all over the spectrum. Like it was just, I just naturally knew how to pick people. No matter what the outside looks like. I knew how to pick people who were good people. I didn't have to learn that skill. So for somebody that has to learn that skill. Like, how do you teach that skill?

Melva Green MD: Again, this is the work. This is the self-work on, um, clearing the trauma, working with the trauma, you know, and, um, working with someone who can really help to rewire that, to help them become more aware of what's at the root of picking the wrong people, quote unquote. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: Right. Now I did pick the wrong people for relationships. That's a whole different story. So I have had to learn that skill in relationships for sure. 

Melva Green MD: Yes. Yes. Right. So there's a, there's a level of unpacking and And, you know, really gently working with that trauma and working with that hurt because at the root of it, because I don't always use the word trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, I'm using it a lot in this conversation because I think it's, it's, it's an important one, but at the, at the root of the trauma is a resilience, right, is a resilience.

Is a knowing, is intuition, is a discernment, but we can't get to it unless we go there. We can't get to it unless we acknowledge it and start to do the work to disentangle. One, you know, from, from disentangling the heart from these, these, these, these feelings of unworthiness, right? Because that's usually the biggest imprint, the unworthiness, the not feeling worthy of having, you know, people who stand with them and people who have their back and people who are good to them.

Right. And so that's one that has to be really, really, really. gently excavated, um, from the root because it, it otherwise just continues to lead to self-betrayal, self-destruction, self-harm. Um, so yeah, I there's really no way around it. You know what I say? There's, there's no way out, but through, you know, and I try to make it as painless as possible.

I try to bring levity and fun and, you know, laughing and crying at the same time, but, These are the things that have to be, they have to be, um, unroofed in order to get to the resilience, in order to get to the strength. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: So, to kind of bring this back, because I'm me, and I'm always all over the place. But to, to people who are wanting to return back to their spirituality, return back to their roots, um, need to work through trauma first.

We, we live where most of the listeners are probably in the United States, where trauma work is pretty, um, Is a pretty westernized science of what's going to be available to them, at least starting off because they, because you want to build these skills of learning how to trust yourself and learning who to trust before you jump in with like, you know, people who could take advantage of you.

Um, so what starting with just like, you know, our back to psychiatry, uh. Evidence based, um, what trauma therapies do you recommend to start building those skills that they can then use to start looking for spiritual leaders? 

Melva Green MD: There are a number of them, but, you know, again, Loucresie, I'm all about, you know, I have, I keep a real 100, you know, a lot of the quote unquote evidence based, they're, they cost money, you know, I mean.

Loucresie Rupert MD: They do , and even just access is the issue. That's the biggest thing. 

Melva Green MD: Yes. So, you know I, you know, I'm happy to share those things, but I feel like we have to also really keep it real, you know, and help people to access things that are really tangible and accessible so, you know, EMDR somatic release. Um, there are lots of, There, there are lots of body work treatments.

I'm a big fan of cranial sacral therapy. Um, there are different kinds of myofascial release where people work on the body, um, to, to, to release traumatic imprints and contractures in the body.  You know, there are different kinds of, um, massage therapists that, You know, know how to work with the body and helping one to to release some of the deeper trauma.

And if we're talking about, um, African Americans, I would venture to say that we carry grief and trauma in the body more than we are, you know, have to say that we feel stressed or bad or, you know, depressed, right? So we tend to show up more in the body. So there are lots of resources in terms of, people who understand the nature of the body and work into release trauma from the level of the body.

Um, and then EMDR and cognitive behavioral therapy. And, um, there, there are a number of things that are based in the, um, polyvagal theory in terms of helping. um, release trauma in that way. And there are all these technologies, but I say that, and I, and I don't mean to, you know, kind of shortchange us, but I'm just very realistic about, you know, access, you know, and, um, to these things.

And so. Um, Oh,  one other thing I should mention, because I do work with people who work with, um, psilocybin, ketamine, um, who work with entheogens, um, of helping people to release and, and to really get to the bottom of more deep seated trauma and depression and anxiety. Um, but again, you know, there's the, these, these things require resources.

But there are certain things that we have access to that, um, don't cost a lot and things like dancing, things like moving the body, things like drumming, things like, um, getting together and fellowship. with people who feel like sunshine, you know, um, um, getting, you know, being in community with people who, again, they may have their own traumas, but people who really are on the path to being the best self.

Um, and. you know, getting in charge of our diets, getting in charge of what we put in our mouths. You know, we know that processed food and, um, unhealthy fats and all those things, they just further just dysregulate our nervous system. So working at eating cleaner, you know, and then also to just getting rid of toxic people.

Loucresie Rupert MD: You know, boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. I think that, as you know, you and in my psychiatrist and any therapist I have had the last two years, I think my biggest work has been boundaries and it's been the biggest, um, or not. What am I trying to say? Biggest benefit? Our biggest thing that brought the biggest changes I guess I'll say 

Melva Green MD: Yes, but getting, and, and, and again, this probably sounds counterintuitive because I'm talking about, you know, humility and being compassionate with people, but, but the  reality is, you know, it, the, it, it generally works that the people who are the over givers, the over doers, you know, um. The ones who are traumatized and can you get more traumatized because they stay surrounded by people who just are just full on toxic.

Um, and so which makes it very difficult to heal, which makes it very difficult to awakens. It makes it very difficult to even access, right? Um, the feel good hormones. Um, and even access what it, what it means to really be on a spiritual path, because you know, those, those people tend to be very, um, emotionally and psychologically oppressive.

Loucresie Rupert MD: I do want to plug this book real quick. I am not financially connected to this book in any way, and it would seem like it's not connected to what we're talking about, but it's called the Autism Spectrum Guide to Sexuality and Relationships, and the reason that I bring it up is by Dr. Emma Goodall. Who's an autistic person,  but this book does a really good job of explaining.

Cause it's written, you know, for people who are neurodiverse to maybe need that step one, step two at looking at healthy relationships. Cause I think a lot of things can, a lot of things can fall in place when you learn what a healthy relationship is. So this literally does a step by step. This is healthy.

This is not healthy. This is what a friendship is. This is what a colleague is like for people that, you know, I personally think everybody needs that step by step, but they claim only neurodiverse people needed. But, uh, if only neurodiverse people needed it, then I would say that relationships, friendships wouldn't be as. bad as they are. But, um, I think that so if you're looking like I have been in a string of unhealthy relationships, whether their friendships romantic in between, I don't know. Like, I can't tell when a colleague is being toxic to me. Like this is literally like this is what healthy looks like. This is what a friendship is.

I think it's a really good basis to start healthy. Healthy connections and then go from there to, you know, working with trauma,  finding the people, your spiritual leaders, um, like, like dr Melva said, bringing in the food and healthy living and all of that stuff. But I think some people really have to break it down to the basic spaces of what is a friend because there are people who don't really know what a friend is.

They call everybody who's nice to them a friend and that is not a very 

Melva Green MD: good point. Very good. Yeah. 

Loucresie Rupert MD: So. That really breaks it down to the basics. I think it's, I think it's something that everybody should read. Um, and then you can kind of build from there. So it seems like it doesn't tie in, but I think it ties in really well with just learning what is healthy and what is unhealthy.

Melva Green MD: No, I think that's, I think that's really, I think that's really good. I think that's really a key point because I mean, you recall this, I mean, so much of the beginning work, um, With me is around, you know, you know, really re redefining, um, these relationships, these dynamics, um, and defining them from a place  of what is your authentic truth, not what is what you've been told that you're supposed to do or how it's supposed to be, but what is absolutely true for you, you know, Really spelling out what healthy looks like because not everybody knows right even in we're talking about finding spiritual teachers or mentors a guide, right?

Like, so how do you, how do you know what healthy looks like? Well, from my perspective, healthy. I can tell you what healthy is not 

Loucresie Rupert MD: big clue. If they're apologizing for cheating on their wife every other month, do not follow them. I'm sorry. I don't want to jump on. Cause I know anybody who, who is in this world knows exactly who I'm talking about.

I don't mean to jump just on him, but that just, that just trips me out. Every time I see it, I just can't get over it. 

Melva Green MD: Yeah. Yeah. And, and again, you know, Um, question everything, you know? Right.  Question everything. You know, there's a, we've, there's a conditioning that's, that's been at work for a long time that, oh, well you can't question.

Loucresie Rupert MD: Right. I think that I think that's one part of neurodiversity that has really worked well for me is I don't believe anything. Just because you said it, I don't believe you. I, and even as a kid, I didn't respect you just because you're an adult. I have told adults before, like. I don't care just because you're an adult like that.

Does that make sense? Um, my godfather is my pastor. My, you know, my mom,  I got on their nerves, but they did encourage me to question things like it was never like, shut up. You don't deserve to have questions, but that just that neurodiversity, neurodiversity piece of, I don't trust you just because you say I should, I think has been very helpful in my life.

But people that are not in our diverse are people that have kind of had that beaten out of them. Right. Because there are a lot of neurodiverse people, um, that kind of, that is their baseline. And they had that beat now. Like I didn't have that beat out of me. I had people who also questioned verything. So they were like, okay, you're annoying, but let's talk about it.

All right. So yeah, I questioned everything. Don't trust people just cause they're in a position of power. Again, see if actions match up words, match up actions. Yeah. People have to earn your trust no matter who they are. 

Melva Green MD: Bingo. Bingo. Bingo. Bingo. Yeah. 

Loucresie Rupert MD:  So we're actually close to time. I think that's a good way to end.People need to earn your trust. Thank you so much, Dr. Green for coming on my podcast today. I'm very excited. Thank you for joining us on Friday Night Soundbite. I hope that we have fed your body, soul, mind, and spirit. Please continue to join us as we discuss topics that center voices that have historically been overlooked and suppressed.

Let's tell our stories, learn from them, and overcome. Please check out my webpage for upcoming events and services offered and follow me on social  media. All links will be in the show notes. See you next time. Thank you so much for listening to Friday Night Soundbytes. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts.

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